In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, There were a lot of changes. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. The problem was strikers. D. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 Sig P320 Accidental Discharge Problem | SIG Talk If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. Period. I agree. But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! P320 Accidental Discharge Still an Issue : r/SigSauer - reddit The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. Sig Sauer Faces $10 Million Lawsuit over P320 Pistol After Alleged The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? I carry one in my front pocket routinely. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. He was told to shoot two rounds. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. . I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. The Glock fails on both counts. They function as commanded every time. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Sig P320 discharge while holstered | Sniper's Hide Forum Asking for a friend. Alec Baldwin fatally shoots cinematographer, injures director on set of Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. Does the P365 have a similar reputation for spontaneous - SIG Talk I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. There was no holster involved. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. Wounded by his own Holstered Sig Sauer P320, Veteran Tampa Police The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. It was expensive. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. They are being replaced with Glocks. Yaaay! They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. The Hide Armory. Trust a P365 with your life. who sells them? Nope. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. And have the dropping 320 go off? Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. U.S. lawsuits What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. But breaking news here, skippy. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. Sig Sauer P320 [Review+Video]: Worth It? - Pew Pew Tactical Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. Would you? SEPTA officer's handgun spontaneously fired in Philly's Suburban Station I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. But now, P320 is the subject. P320 X Compact is it safe CCW | SIG Talk The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging Mine is very accurate. How about something more relevant. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Third, Glock has had problems, too. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. Thats deflecting from the real issue. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Canadian soldier. Who knows. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? About $300. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. And thats just my opinion. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. I continue to bet my life on them. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. One hell of a conspiracy. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. Its a novelty, its got issues! The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. Thats SIGs term for a recall. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. Fine. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Thats fine. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. JTF-2 is the only unit in. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. , 54 people all shooting themselves. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. Companies stay silent Dont care for them, not my jam. Kyle . Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Time will tell if no. The new guy sucks. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Good job! The new Kirk does suck. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation.
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