Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? Tech Talk - Differences between R-1234yf and R-134a - FJC Inc R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." $21 . R134a. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. Big . might be due to charge or different compressor and age. Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. It won't be optimal, though. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). Quick View. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. Stopleak is also risky. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. PDF R134a R513A - Tecumseh Products The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. 10,000BTU conduction heating? Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. sparkee said: Thanks for the Service Bulletin. Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. Crap! I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? | NSX Prime Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. Only show this user. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? Can I just use an adapter and save $200? If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? R-134a XV for R-134a use. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. So to keep things simple and to avoid controversy and politics we have R134a. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. Air Conditioning Expansion Valve R134a - R12 replacement kit The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. . That is a good thing. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. Just leave it alone for now. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. Blows pretty hard on full. El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Yep, definately not a meat locker. With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: Chemistry The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) Flushed, vacuumed etc. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. 5. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely.
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